HTML Is Actually a Programming Language. Fight Me

and then:

https://blog.codepen.io/2025/01/20/chris-corner-html/

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IMO, the people who insist that HTML isn’t a programming language don’t seem to get the concept of declarative programming. This seems common with a lot of techies who only use imperative programming languages.

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Sadly I can’t read the WIRED article because it’s behind a paywall, but I’m going to put this comment I made on the Discord server for the benefit of those not in it:

My take is that the whole distinction between “programming” and “not programming” isn’t useful and only drives a sort of elitism that separates “programmers” who are “smart” and “powerful” from “non-programmers” who are “stupid” and “weak”. The most important thing is that people create things and HTML lets people create things and express themselves.

“Is HTML a programming language?” Doesn’t matter. Can you make good things? Yes! Then use it!

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ah, sorry! i listened to the article at the top of the page. here’s an archive link:

https://archive.is/KXJQ6

Context matters. HTML is mostly fine as an answer to “what programming languages do you know?” It it not fine as an answer to “what programming language should we use to implement our new smart grid services?” Too many things are languages: markup languages, query languages, file formats (which have grammars and are languages).

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I once wrote an entire blog post based on this premise (apologies for the shameless plug). But the gist of it is, I consider HTML a programming language because it lets people tell the computer to do cool stuff. In this case, show all kinds of things on screen. That’s a thing too. It can be fun and useful. It’s been a long time since computers were all, or even mainly, about computation.

Pedants can say “computer language” instead if they like. Same difference.

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Totally agree with this! I have a similar motto that I like to use: “The tools aren’t as important as what you create with them.” Did you make something you’re proud of on the computer? Good, that’s all that matters.

Also, @memo your comment about too many things being languages reminds me of this article about things that are surprisingly Turing complete:

Hopefully that’s not too off-topic, but I think it relates because it just highlights how many different things can be considered “programming,” and also how stupid gatekeeping is in this instance.

Also also! There’s a very convincing argument in the Javascript book You Don’t Know JS: Scope and Closures that JS is actually a compiled programming language. That particular tidbit is not exactly what you brought up above, but it does highlight how there is often much more going on under the hood than we realize. And how it’s useless to simplify the languages we use and think of one as being “lesser” than another.

Sorry for the wall of text, I suppose this topic brought up a lot of thoughts in me.

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I’d go further and say that even within technical disciplines words and phrases don’t have precise meaning without context.

Is a strawberry a berry? A fruit? Not a true fruit but an accessory fruit? It is all of those depending on the context. Botanists mustn’t bust into chefs’ kitchens and make a nuisance of themselves by insisting their context is somehow more correct or important.

A contextual meaning that is more precise is not more correct. Phrases like “true fruit” may make this harder to realize.

So I wouldn’t say “JS is actually a compiled programming language.” I’d say instead that the definition of a “interpreted programming language” has some wiggle room.

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