Getting Clique Members

Community-Made Projects
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I started a mental health clique called: menhera a while ago and still don’t have any members. Any advice on how to get a clique out there? I tried tumblr and submitting to a clique directory but not much luck. Any advice would be very appreciated. Thanks.

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Did you post about it on your profile page on neocities? If you already did that, do it again! You can try posting on r/neocities on Reddit. Sometimes cliques go off like crazy and sometimes they languish and I can’t figure out the rhyme or reason of it!

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While mental health isn’t something I have any desire to talk about on my blog*, I have to say that the design on your page is really cool as is the design of the pill bottle. Best of luck!

*Big ups to the folks who do want to talk about i though, just clarifying its a personal thing not a subject thing lol

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Well I made another clique and still no members. I wonder if people just don’t want to associate with me? Or is that just the RSD talking? Maybe my cliques are too niche. Oh well. It was fun to make them I guess, just feels a little lonely out here.

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I think they’re cool! Neither resonate with my personal interests but looking into both of them sent me into cool rabbit holes and I learned a lot. I wonder if this will connect with some of the folks active in our clothes/fashion thread

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It might help to add them to a directory like this one?

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I’m glad you posted about this again.

I actually drafted a response to this in January and then got caught up in self doubt about whether I should actually reply. In case helpful, here it is:

Hello, I hope it’s okay to offer some thoughts here.

I had never heard of menhera but I’ve spent a little time exploring some articles around it, including the following (no idea if these are good sources, but they did give me a better idea of the sort of space you’re describing):

As someone who is passionate about mental health awareness and empowerment, I think this is a really cool idea for a clique - particularly reclaiming this label as something positive - and I hope you are able to grow it.

I appreciate I’m likely not the target audience so my questions are naive (and you can absolutely ignore them), but having looked at your page, it’s not immediately clear to me if this is a clique for:

  • The menhera fashion subculture or mental wellbeing more broadly
  • Only people who identify as women
  • People with a mental illness diagnosis or anyone with mental health struggles

The pill bottles are SO cute - I love the variety of ribbons - but I’d suggest that not everyone might manage the symptoms of poor mental health with medication, or if they do, they might not feel comfortable sharing this and tying it to their identity. Maybe some alternative icons might help more people, unless the pill bottles are a core part of the menhera subculture. I saw there were other motifs like plasters (band-aids) too though.

I think it’s understandable that you might not necessarily immediately attract a large community of people willing to participate. Mental health can be a very personal experience that not everyone is necessarily comfortable openly attaching to their identity. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it - I’m not saying that AT ALL - just that it can be quite a nuanced experience for the individual. However, that doesn’t mean your clique shouldn’t exist!

From time to time I write about my own mental health struggles, including topics that I put a content warning on, and I’m comfortable sharing those. Again, I don’t think I’m the intended audience here, but if I was, I’d personally be a bit wary of what joining this clique might mean without more reassuring language. For example, things like:

  • only sharing as much information as you’re comfortable sharing (you say ‘share as much as you like’ but I’d personally feel more comfortable with this being a bit more explicit that sharing at all is discretionary)
  • suggestions of things to consider before deciding how forthcoming you want to be (i.e. are you comfortable listing information that family or employers might see)
  • what the expected etiquette is of members of this clique, such as how they might reference each others’ websites, respect each others’ privacy, promote personal safety, and recognise individual experience.
  • suggested content warnings if their website also features writing or artworks about their experiences
  • what members can expect of the clique itself. I know a clique can be more casual than a web-ring, but stating I’m a part of one signposts that I align with its philosophy (and rightly so) but I don’t have any control over what that means long term. This isn’t necessarily problematic with cliques around interests and hobbies, but could be more challenging for areas such as disability and mental health. How do I know that joining such a clique won’t lead to associations or activities that I don’t align with, particularly on such a personal topic? (i.e. what do I need to know upfront to decide if it’s for me), What does reclaiming the menhera label mean in practice? (Is it just the showing my interest/support by being a member of the clique, or are there expectations that my website have certain types of content/updates?), if I add myself to the members directory, how do I know this will be treated with care. Just some light reassurance would help
  • one of the examples includes ADHD. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I don’t think everyone would consider ADHD a mental health condition. I think in the UK it’s considered a neurodevelopment condition primarily, but is grouped with mental health services. To be clear, I’m not suggesting any policing of terminology, but maybe some reassurance that people can use whatever terminology resonates with them, and that people should expect and respect those differences of opinion
  • If this is a clique for anyone who aligns with the theme, not just those with a mental health diagnosis, explicit ‘all experiences are valid’ messaging
  • examples of websites or writing typical of people who might be interested in joining this clique (assuming they’re happy to be featured)
  • signposting of mental health resources for people who are struggling themselves

Anyway, these are just some immediate thoughts. Feel free to disregard entirely if I’ve completely missed the mark of what you’re trying to do here!

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i think you may just need to adjust your expectations somewhat!

the website hobby is small to start off with, and each subcategory is smaller yet: the number of people within the hobby interested in joining cliques and webrings; the number of people who will have heard of your clique in particular; the number of people who have heard of it and are interested in menhera or kirai kei; the number of people interested in it who have the follow-through to actually sign up is the smallest. even the best-case scenario absolute maximum number of members is quite low, relatively speaking.

on top of that, you only made the clique recently; things take time. basically nothing has instant feedback or results in this region of the internet! people do not see things as soon as they are created. something being new means that fewer people will have had an opportunity to look at it; a long delay in response time and very very low rate of direct interaction is normal and to be expected. even the absolute most popular micromicrocelebs on the hobby web like melon, who has given speeches and interviews and gallery shows, have quite low rates of direct engagement with projects.

the gothic lolita fanlisting has 536 members and has existed since at least 2009. aromatic is a text clique with about 185 members, and it’s been around since like 2019. that’s about 2 members per month of existence for both, and those are both particularly successful! much more common would be something like the hamilton fanlisting (23 members since 2018) or the armoury (3 members in 2 years).

the way to get members is to stick the clique in some directories so people can find it and then wait a couple years! it’s not about the topic or you as a person, it’s just how things are.

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I thought my description of it on my site was sufficient and probably more accurate than any article conflating it with yamikawaii. I’ve been into menhera since 16. The clique is for anyone who wishes to join I don’t think it warrants a hundred . . . and forgive my tone, preachy and gatekeepy disclaimers like some things in the smallweb do. I intentionally kept it open ended. I think that’s more inclusive, personally.

Also ADHD is in the DSM-V, ends in “disorder”, and if you personally don’t wanna list it, that’s up to you. I was diagnosed by a psych doctor . . . because it’s a psych illness. There’s no shame in it being an illness. It literally inhibits my ability to function.

I talk about women because that’s 99% of menhera especially in Japan, but anyone can join. Which I think I wrote? I don’t remember–if not I will specify that.

Menhera is like punk, the fashion is a part of the subculture. They are not divorced from each other and it’d be weird to do so. You don’t have to dress it to be part of the subculture, but if you only wear the fashion and don’t partake in the actual culture (punk: rebellion against established power structures and shock performance through rock music) (menhera: reclaiming mental illness via kawaii motifs and being open about mental illness, especially depression), you aren’t actually part of the subculture . . . You just wear some clothes sometimes.

The fashion is an extension of the subculture, if that makes sense. Think of it like, wearing lederhosen doesn’t make you German, you have to actually speak the language and abide by their cultural ideals in order to be German. Wearing lederhosen divorced from the culture itself just makes you look like someone on Halloween out of season.

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This is what I figured once I got past my emotions. I really do think it might be my RSD that makes me so silly about the low member rates. But hey, I got one member just recently, so that made me really happy!

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Hey, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I apologise if I came across as preachy or trying to redefine something that isn’t mine to define. That was not my intention at all.

You’re absolutely right that I’m coming at this outside the subculture, and I should have been more mindful of that, rather than offering such a lengthy(!!) response of my own opinions.

I genuinely do hope you see more interest in the clique.

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I hope I didn’t seem too combative. I know I can be. I try my best not to though–it’s a learned behavior, and not a good one. So, thank you for being understanding.

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Hello! I tried commenting on your site to ask for an email I could contact, but it seems like you didn’t see the comment, so I’ll let you know here. I have concerns with these cliques: namely, the fact that the history you list is very incorrect. I love the concept of your menhera clique, so it makes me sad to see that! I wanted to help make your page more accurate by correcting the misinfo.

For the menhera section:

“It was on the mental health board, where people (primarily women) were labled メンヘラ (short for “mentally ill”) by other users outside of the mental health board. It’s closest cousin in the English language, I’d say, is akin to “cringe,” but with a stronger (or rather, more obvious) connotation surrounding mental illness.”
Incorrect in the term’s origin. It is true that menhera began on a mental health board, but “menhera” was seen as a neutral-to-positive descriptor of those who frequented the board. The board was known as the “mentaru herusu ban” (or “mental health board”), which the people frequenting the board shortened to “menheru”, and users became known as “menhera” (one who seeks mental wellness, or “mental healther”). Its origin is in a positive mental health awareness movement.
Incorrect in why it was used as an insult. It did not begin as an insult. Menhera began as a mental health awareness movement online, which started in 2channel boards, but expanded to the general Japanese internet. However, there was a violent assault case committed by a young woman in Japan, and her Twitter account was revealed to be the user “menheragod”. This was the first time that the term was given mainstream attention. Of course, when these everyday people looked up what it was all about, they were greeted with vent art and discussions that were considered shameful. After this, “menhera” began to be used as an insult in the mainstream.
Partially incorrect in the exact term being used as an insult. Usually, the insulting variety of the word is “menhera kei” (mental healther-type).

“But We’re Here to Reclaim It! As has been the effort in Japan, I seek to reclaim it in the English speaking world as well.”
Incorrect in Japanese usage of the term and Japanese culture. The concept of “reclaiming” a term does not exist in Japan the way that it may elsewhere. In fact, the opposite is common; “menhera” got turned into a derogatory term, as did “gyaru”. The closest thing Japan does to what we understand as “reclamation” is derive positive terms from negative ones (like how “otaku” became “wotaku”). The reason why Japanese people use “menhera” as a positive label is because that is how it originated.

It reads to me like you just heard that “menhera” originated on 2channel, and it is used as an insult in the modern day, and let your assumptions fill in the rest. This does a huge disservice to menhera, and erases the very important context that it originated as a mental health awareness movement before being demonized by the mainstream!

For the jirai kei section:

“Jirai Kei is a Japanese fashion style which got it’s name from men who believed that dating women who dress this way are like “stepping on a landmine.””
Incorrect that it is a fashion style. Jirai kei is not a unique fashion subtype. It is a subculture that has become associated with pre-existing fashions because they were stereotyped as “popular” with jirais. The idea that jirai is its own fashion is a common misunderstanding, due to many English-speakers believing that “kei” means “fashion”, when it really means “type (of person/thing)”. The origin of this idea of “jirai kei fashion” was a viral Japanese “psycho girlfriend” Tiktok trend where influencers dressed up as and imitated mentally ill women (quite often in a mocking way, though not always). What is often touted as “jirai kei fashion” is actually known as “girly kei fashion”; specifically the subtype, “dark girly”. That’s why you were able to be dressing up in “jirai fashion” before you knew what it was or heard the term (especially if it was pre-2020, which is when the Tiktok trend took place).

“Strongly associated with societal outcasts, rebels, and the mentally ill, Jirai Kei is a Japanese woman’s punk.”
Incorrect in terms of what it is associated with. The modern-day jirai stereotype (that which the Tiktok trend was based on, and especially the Japanese subculture that was born of it) has a lot of its roots in the Toyoko Kids. This is a gang of abused teenage runaways that reside in Kabukicho, and that were forced to sell themselves into prostitution in order to survive. Many of these children drink, do drugs, or self-harm to cope. They see their friends die, and try to go with them, which leads to an idolization of death. This is what the Japanese “jirai kei” lifestyle is based off of, and what the aforementioned Tiktok trend were imitating.
Incorrect in terms of being “a Japanese woman’s punk”. Probably the single most incorrect statement here. As I’ve discussed, Japanese people do not “do” reclamation, and “jirai kei” originated as an insult where the stereotype was based off of the Toyoko Kids. The Japanese subculture is a distinctly anti-recovery subculture based on self-destruction, where “jirai” is being used in a self-deprecating way.

The idea of jirai kei being “punk” and “reclaimed” in Japan is entirely a Western invention, based off of people projecting their own culture onto Japanese people (“reclamation”), and making assumptions based off of what they already know from Western culture (“punk”). The idea that jirai kei is its own fashion style is born from an inability from Westerners to even take the time to look up what “kei” means. I can hardly blame you for this, though, because all of this misinformation is extremely common on the English-speaking internet.

If I may suggest more accurate versions of summarized jirai and menhera history…

Menhera: “Menhera（メンヘラ）is a Japanese fashion style and subculture which started on 2channel, AKA 2chan, the Japanese predecessor to 4chan. 2chan’s “mentaru herusu ban” (mental health board) became shortened to “menheru” by those using it, and those using it became known as “menhera” (“mental healthers”). Eventually, people outside 2chan began to call themselves “menhera”, with the community focusing on expressing themselves and advocating for mental health awareness.
After a high-profile assault case where the assaulter was found to have “menhera” in their Twitter username, “menhera kei” (“mental healther-type”) began to be used as an ableist insult, especially towards women. But lots of people continue to use its original meaning as a mental health awareness movement!”

Jirai: “Jirai originated as an insult for mentally ill people. “Jirai” means “landmine”, and “jirai kei” (“landmine type”) is used to mean a person, usually a woman, who you have to tiptoe around, or else they will blow up and act abusively. In 2020, there was a viral “psycho girlfriend” Tiktok trend in which influencers dressed up and imitated this type of woman, where the idea was put forth that jirai kei tend to wear dark girly fashion. Much of this stereotype has its roots in the Toyoko Kids, which is a gang of abused teen runaways.
A jirai kei subculture was born after this trend. In Japan, it is used by mentally ill people (usually women) who are not interested in seeking recovery, in a self-depricating manner. The English-speaking variant of this subculture seeks to reclaim the term in a positive way.”

Saying that jirai and menhera are “similar” should be avoided, as it would be likely to annoy both menhera and jirai who are passionate about their subculture. The communities are often at odds with each other (especially online), because menhera is a pro-recovery subculture, while jirai is anti-recovery (these statements apply to both the English and Japanese variants of both subcultures). It is also important to note in your summary that dark girly was a fashion style before it became associated with jirai, because people who wore the already-existing style have been harassed due to the association, so it’s not a good idea to keep pushing the idea that it is just “jirai kei fashion”!

Apologies for the long comment! I have done a lot of research into both menhera and jirai, and I’m very passionate about making sure that other people understand their history. I’m sorry if I come across as rude, as I’m autistic and blunt, especially when it comes to areas of special interest. I’m just trying to be helpful and make sure that these Japanese subcultures are understood within their proper contexts within English-speaking spaces.

Thanks! If you’re interested in where I got this information, here are some sources (all written by Japanese language-speakers, people who live in Japan, or both):